Family Lore Focus

An Interview with Neil Denny

A couple of weeks ago Family Lore Focus published an article on 'Red File',
described as 'a new model for providing divorce remedies'. Now I talk to Neil Denny
of Mogers Solicitors in Bath, one of the architects of 'Red File', to get more detail on
this interesting idea.

JB: Could you explain briefly what exactly is "Red File", and how it works?

ND: Red File is a system by which the client deals with their own case assisted by,
as opposed to being represented by, us as their solicitors. In many ways it reflects
practices that we already see when a client wants us to help “from the wings” or
“behind the scenes”. The service provides distinct areas of work that the client can
decide they want help with. For example when embarking on a divorce application,
they might want help with drafting a divorce petition, or the affidavit in support,
but nothing else. In that event the client would come to us at the petition and
affidavit stage to prepare or check those documents before then going off and
dealing with filing and the associated correspondence themselves. Each specific
step, or module, has a fixed fee attributed to it which is paid upfront to ensure
there is transparency on the costs.

JB: Could you give an example of how it works in practice, for example on a
straightforward divorce?

ND: Richard has been researching the divorce process. He understands how to
apply for a divorce and already has the blank petition and notes for guidance. He
does not want a solicitor to fully represent him, or pay a solicitor to deal with the
matters of correspondence and filing that he himself can deal with.

He would like to meet with a lawyer to draft the divorce petition, you know, just to
make sure, so he uses the Red File service and pays the fixed fee for the
“Preparing Your Divorce Petition” module. Having done so, he receives, quite
literally, a Red File, with a plain English explanation of the whole process, pitfalls he
needs to watch out for and what the other modules, or stages, are within the
process.

He prepares his divorce petition, or meets with his lawyer to prepare it, and leaves
with all the copies he needs to have filed at court and the relevant enclosures.

The rest of the process is fairly straightforward he feels. Upon receiving his wife’s
acknowledgement of service, and the blank affidavit from the court, however, he
feels he would like to get in touch with us again, just to make sure. So he pays
the fixed fee for that module, comes in and leaves with a fully prepared affidavit
for him to get sworn and file at Court with all the relevant supporting
documentation.

He can deal with the rest himself, except that he reads in the Red File that he
really does need to get the financial agreement he has reached with his wife
incorporated as a consent order. Thankfully, Red File has a relevant module which
he uses. He instructs his lawyer on the terms that have been agreed and is
provided with a suitable consent order and this thing called the Statement of
Information, completed with the details he gave his lawyer. He has supporting
documentation on what he know needs to do with the order and statement, how
to file it. There is a brief letter reminding him of the discussions he had with his
lawyer where they had explored whether he was sure this is the deal he wanted
to agree and that there was a chance he might have been able to keep more of
the equity from the house if he wanted.

JB: What was the motivation behind "Red File"?

ND: The motivation for Red File comes from the recognition that many clients in
straightforward cases can in fact do things themselves, want to do things
themselves and will do things themselves whether we assist them or not. The full
implementation of the Legal Services Act will also challenge all legal practices to be
more flexible in the range of services they offer and the way they work together
with clients in the future.

Richard Susskind’s “The End of Lawyers?” provides an excellent warning to us all
on the need to innovate and be more responsive to our clients demands.

JB: Has your firm started using "Red File" and if so, what has been the take-up by
clients?

ND: Red File is being used by a handful of clients already and the response has
been incredibly positive. They see the process as being respectful of their
capabilities, instead of imposing a bespoke fully represented level of service that
they just do not want.

JB: How do you decide upon the price for each 'module'?

ND: We are making a conscious effort to break away from an hourly rate paradigm
here. How central is the module to the process and what is the value to the client
of the assistance we are contributing are the determining factors.

JB: Surely there is a danger that clients will 'demand' more from you for each
module, for example by telephoning constantly, thereby reducing or wiping out
profit - do you have to 'limit' the service?

ND: In many ways this concern harks back to the hourly rate paradigm. Because
each module is clearly defined in its scope, and because the assistance can be
provided within defined limits then the moment when the next module is
encountered is easily identifiable, and then becomes chargeable. There may be
many cases where we could have earned more on an hourly charging basis and
there will be others where the work required is far quicker than in other cases.

The client who telephones constantly is not going to be appropriate to Red File.
We find that such clients, though, place real value in the fully representative
relationship between client and lawyer. In these cases, as with any case, the
basis of fees charged and the value to clients needs to be communicated clearly..

The literature supporting Red File works hard make it clear that this is a service for
those clients who want and can be largely independent. The literature also
anticipates the kind of enquiries that will arise. As it develops, it may well be
possible to look at Divorce Online’s example and provide FAQ’s and answers.

JB: Isn't there also a danger that offering the service will take 'conventional' (and
higher-paying) work away from the firm?

ND: For many clients the value in having a lawyer is the peace of mind in handing
over what are time consuming and emotional processes. We believe that those
clients who do not have the time to manage their own case, or who require that
bespoke level of full representation will still avail themselves of that level of
service. It is wrong though for the legal profession to impose a single level of
service onto the consumer who does not want it.

JB: How do you market the service, without affecting 'conventional' services?

ND: It has been important to anchor this process to values. We place a lot of
stock in the question of our relationship to the client, respecting the client and their
wishes and capabilities. Once we accepted that some clients can do it themselves,
want to do it themselves and will do it themselves anyway, then the question
becomes “How can we help?”

JB: Do you see any other legal services being offered in this way?

ND: We are looking at elements of probate, small claims litigation, possibly
employment elements… It needs the relevant fee-earners to fully take stock of
what it is that they do, and what alternative methods could there be for delivering
those services, a view reflected in Susskind’s “The End of Lawyers?”

JB: Thank you.